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	<title>Comments for Adam Schlipmann's Music Education Blog</title>
	<atom:link href="http://musiceducation.wordpress.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://musiceducation.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>A Professional Portfolio and Forum</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:18:29 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s Been Such a Long Time&#8230; by nathan levine</title>
		<link>http://musiceducation.wordpress.com/2009/10/21/its-been-such-a-long-time/#comment-63</link>
		<dc:creator>nathan levine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://musiceducation.wordpress.com/?p=118#comment-63</guid>
		<description>Bravo sir!  I am glad to hear that you are continuing to push forward with some constructivist ideology within the music classroom.  I am hoping to put together a somewhat similar class at the middle school level next year.  I guess we&#039;ll see how it goes.  Thanks for writing about the challenges you have faced thus far.  I have a better idea about forging ahead thanks to your insights...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo sir!  I am glad to hear that you are continuing to push forward with some constructivist ideology within the music classroom.  I am hoping to put together a somewhat similar class at the middle school level next year.  I guess we&#8217;ll see how it goes.  Thanks for writing about the challenges you have faced thus far.  I have a better idea about forging ahead thanks to your insights&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on About by nathan levine</title>
		<link>http://musiceducation.wordpress.com/about/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>nathan levine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 23:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-61</guid>
		<description>Hello Adam!

I came across your blog when I was doing a research paper on Manhattanville for my Masters earlier this year.  I am now teaching Middle School Orchestra in the Anchorage School District.  I have really enjoyed reading your ideas about the current state and future of music education.  There are truly some potentially astounding places that music education might head in the decades to come and I hope to be a small part of it here in the last frontier.  For now, I will work with the ensemble based model and see where I can sprinkle little bits of constructivist theory into the mix.  It is my hope to eventually have a class, or god forbid, a program based on the leanings of MMCP.  Guess we&#039;ll see about that.  I like your ideas about creating a curriculum for a class that gives non-ensemble based musicians a chance to participate in musical activities while at school.  There is so much potential for new and exciting programs that focus on the standards that all too often go unnoticed in the ensemble centered program.  Perhaps we will meet someday at a conference.  Until then, I look forward to more of your posts.   

Regards, Nathan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Adam!</p>
<p>I came across your blog when I was doing a research paper on Manhattanville for my Masters earlier this year.  I am now teaching Middle School Orchestra in the Anchorage School District.  I have really enjoyed reading your ideas about the current state and future of music education.  There are truly some potentially astounding places that music education might head in the decades to come and I hope to be a small part of it here in the last frontier.  For now, I will work with the ensemble based model and see where I can sprinkle little bits of constructivist theory into the mix.  It is my hope to eventually have a class, or god forbid, a program based on the leanings of MMCP.  Guess we&#8217;ll see about that.  I like your ideas about creating a curriculum for a class that gives non-ensemble based musicians a chance to participate in musical activities while at school.  There is so much potential for new and exciting programs that focus on the standards that all too often go unnoticed in the ensemble centered program.  Perhaps we will meet someday at a conference.  Until then, I look forward to more of your posts.   </p>
<p>Regards, Nathan</p>
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		<title>Comment on Music and Technology by Adam S</title>
		<link>http://musiceducation.wordpress.com/2008/08/22/music-and-technology/#comment-60</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://musiceducation.wordpress.com/?p=35#comment-60</guid>
		<description>For anyone who might be interested,

I am always willing to share my thoughts and materials. Feel free to contact me at aschlip@gmail.com.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For anyone who might be interested,</p>
<p>I am always willing to share my thoughts and materials. Feel free to contact me at <a href="mailto:aschlip@gmail.com">aschlip@gmail.com</a>.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Music and Technology by Vickie Henson</title>
		<link>http://musiceducation.wordpress.com/2008/08/22/music-and-technology/#comment-59</link>
		<dc:creator>Vickie Henson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:29:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://musiceducation.wordpress.com/?p=35#comment-59</guid>
		<description>Hi Adam,
I came across a proposal that you wrote in Fall of 2006 for a Commercial Music Class and was wondering if I could get permission to use this as the basis of my proposal for a commercial music class at the HS where I teach.  I would of course list you as author.
I left a message at your work phone but was not really sure if it was the correct number.  Thanks so much for your time.
vickie Henson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Adam,<br />
I came across a proposal that you wrote in Fall of 2006 for a Commercial Music Class and was wondering if I could get permission to use this as the basis of my proposal for a commercial music class at the HS where I teach.  I would of course list you as author.<br />
I left a message at your work phone but was not really sure if it was the correct number.  Thanks so much for your time.<br />
vickie Henson</p>
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		<title>Comment on Music Education Needs a Bailout by Adam S</title>
		<link>http://musiceducation.wordpress.com/2008/12/14/music-education-needs-a-bailout/#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://musiceducation.wordpress.com/?p=85#comment-53</guid>
		<description>Hi Jane,

I would say it depends on the goal of the assignment. If it is to have students attend concerts that are similar to what they do (school performances), and critique their peers, I think a more &#039;empathetic&#039; approach should be utilized. I would not encourage students to critique the performance (ala American Idol), rather I would have them try to understand the process that the group went through in preparing their repertoire. The best way to do this might be to take a specific set of musical concepts that you&#039;ve been working on in class, and have students comment on those. For instance, &#039;how did the ensemble&#039;s use of dynamics contribute to their overall musicality?&#039; Until you have students who can fluently converse about the elements of music in performance, I think it is OK to ask leading questions. 

Also, how does the performance they are critiquing relate to their lives? Could they identify with the performers? Were there major musical benefits to attending this concert?

However, if your goal is to improve the ability to reflect on musical concepts and write a really great critique, I think you should consider taking it out of the context of a concert. Let students write about the music that they listen to. You can ask about the same musical concepts, and they will assign greater meaning due to the fact that it is music of their own interest. I could write a more meaningful critique of a Radiohead album than I could about vocal works of Kirby Shaw, for example. In my own musical world, I value one over the other. Your students make these priority judgments as well. Start with what they value and slowly work your way to what you&#039;d like for them to experience.

Finally, perhaps have them read some examples of great critiques, and identify the common themes that authors write about. I know the New Yorker has really great music critics like Sasha Frere Jones and Alex Ross. Their articles are freely available online, and are very student-friendly in terms of content. The main thesis of these ramblings is to be relevant to what the student is learning. How does the music they are consuming outside of class relate to what you are teaching? This can be pretty powerful when students start talking about rhythmic cadences, differences in articulation, and dynamic contrast in the music they listen to. It will make its way into the music that you are doing with them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jane,</p>
<p>I would say it depends on the goal of the assignment. If it is to have students attend concerts that are similar to what they do (school performances), and critique their peers, I think a more &#8216;empathetic&#8217; approach should be utilized. I would not encourage students to critique the performance (ala American Idol), rather I would have them try to understand the process that the group went through in preparing their repertoire. The best way to do this might be to take a specific set of musical concepts that you&#8217;ve been working on in class, and have students comment on those. For instance, &#8216;how did the ensemble&#8217;s use of dynamics contribute to their overall musicality?&#8217; Until you have students who can fluently converse about the elements of music in performance, I think it is OK to ask leading questions. </p>
<p>Also, how does the performance they are critiquing relate to their lives? Could they identify with the performers? Were there major musical benefits to attending this concert?</p>
<p>However, if your goal is to improve the ability to reflect on musical concepts and write a really great critique, I think you should consider taking it out of the context of a concert. Let students write about the music that they listen to. You can ask about the same musical concepts, and they will assign greater meaning due to the fact that it is music of their own interest. I could write a more meaningful critique of a Radiohead album than I could about vocal works of Kirby Shaw, for example. In my own musical world, I value one over the other. Your students make these priority judgments as well. Start with what they value and slowly work your way to what you&#8217;d like for them to experience.</p>
<p>Finally, perhaps have them read some examples of great critiques, and identify the common themes that authors write about. I know the New Yorker has really great music critics like Sasha Frere Jones and Alex Ross. Their articles are freely available online, and are very student-friendly in terms of content. The main thesis of these ramblings is to be relevant to what the student is learning. How does the music they are consuming outside of class relate to what you are teaching? This can be pretty powerful when students start talking about rhythmic cadences, differences in articulation, and dynamic contrast in the music they listen to. It will make its way into the music that you are doing with them.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Music Education Needs a Bailout by Jane Nesbit</title>
		<link>http://musiceducation.wordpress.com/2008/12/14/music-education-needs-a-bailout/#comment-52</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane Nesbit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:24:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://musiceducation.wordpress.com/?p=85#comment-52</guid>
		<description>How do I teach high school students to write a meaningful critique.  They need to critique a vocal concert and an orchestra critique.  How should they be guided to do this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do I teach high school students to write a meaningful critique.  They need to critique a vocal concert and an orchestra critique.  How should they be guided to do this?</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Future of Bands, Choirs, and Orchestras by Adam S</title>
		<link>http://musiceducation.wordpress.com/2009/02/04/the-future-of-bands-choirs-and-orchestras/#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 03:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://musiceducation.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-51</guid>
		<description>I would disagree that the comprehensive musicianship model has been fully developed. Even to this day, traditionalist teachers take the &#039;analyze, diagnose, prescribe&#039; method in rehearsals. Students learn absolutely nothing this way. Perhaps if more teachers were to buy into the idea that teaching general concepts out of context can improve students&#039; ability within the repertoire, we would see more opportunity to balance the re-creative (you&#039;re right, there is nothing wrong with it) AND the creative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would disagree that the comprehensive musicianship model has been fully developed. Even to this day, traditionalist teachers take the &#8216;analyze, diagnose, prescribe&#8217; method in rehearsals. Students learn absolutely nothing this way. Perhaps if more teachers were to buy into the idea that teaching general concepts out of context can improve students&#8217; ability within the repertoire, we would see more opportunity to balance the re-creative (you&#8217;re right, there is nothing wrong with it) AND the creative.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Future of Bands, Choirs, and Orchestras by Christi</title>
		<link>http://musiceducation.wordpress.com/2009/02/04/the-future-of-bands-choirs-and-orchestras/#comment-50</link>
		<dc:creator>Christi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://musiceducation.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-50</guid>
		<description>I thought you would appreciate the Covey. I agree with you, that it&#039;s hard to determine how it will work until there are some models. Just look at how long it&#039;s taken the idea of &quot;comprehensive musicianship&quot; to develop and evolve. Lots of people are sitting around waiting for some resources to show up in the mail. Still, many others are just collecting trophies and plaques.
Throughout this process of creating a curriculum that includes both comprehensive (re-creative---there&#039;s nothing wrong with it) and creative aspects, the most important step is communication. Students, Other Teachers, Administrators, and Community Members &lt;i&gt;will scoff&lt;/i&gt; at the idea unless its purpose has been communicated effectively and often. Luckily, we know what the benefits of this type of curriculum are to students across the board, and our state organizations are producing materials for this type of advocacy. If this type of advocacy is acted upon with curricula match it, then buy-in is pretty likely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought you would appreciate the Covey. I agree with you, that it&#8217;s hard to determine how it will work until there are some models. Just look at how long it&#8217;s taken the idea of &#8220;comprehensive musicianship&#8221; to develop and evolve. Lots of people are sitting around waiting for some resources to show up in the mail. Still, many others are just collecting trophies and plaques.<br />
Throughout this process of creating a curriculum that includes both comprehensive (re-creative&#8212;there&#8217;s nothing wrong with it) and creative aspects, the most important step is communication. Students, Other Teachers, Administrators, and Community Members <i>will scoff</i> at the idea unless its purpose has been communicated effectively and often. Luckily, we know what the benefits of this type of curriculum are to students across the board, and our state organizations are producing materials for this type of advocacy. If this type of advocacy is acted upon with curricula match it, then buy-in is pretty likely.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Future of Bands, Choirs, and Orchestras by Adam S</title>
		<link>http://musiceducation.wordpress.com/2009/02/04/the-future-of-bands-choirs-and-orchestras/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://musiceducation.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-49</guid>
		<description>Christi,

I will banish you if you ever quote Covey again!! (kidding)

The comprehensive musicianship model that you refer to, in my opinion, is an excellent way to develop musical skills. When ensemble teachers focus on teaching concepts rather than specific literature, students are much more likely to be able to transfer those concepts. The end result, however, is still a performance which is generally looked upon as valuable in schools and communities. My belief, however, is a little different in that we should be advocating for music as a creative art and not a re-creative one.

Once I see ensemble teachers combining the skill-building of comprehensive musicianship (which very few use) and the creative side of music education that has been ignored in favor of performance-based curricula, I will be able to speak more directly to the place of ensembles in the future. If I had to guess, I would say that there will always be a separate but equal stance on performance and creative-based music classes. Blurring this line will be quite difficult until more models are available for observation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christi,</p>
<p>I will banish you if you ever quote Covey again!! (kidding)</p>
<p>The comprehensive musicianship model that you refer to, in my opinion, is an excellent way to develop musical skills. When ensemble teachers focus on teaching concepts rather than specific literature, students are much more likely to be able to transfer those concepts. The end result, however, is still a performance which is generally looked upon as valuable in schools and communities. My belief, however, is a little different in that we should be advocating for music as a creative art and not a re-creative one.</p>
<p>Once I see ensemble teachers combining the skill-building of comprehensive musicianship (which very few use) and the creative side of music education that has been ignored in favor of performance-based curricula, I will be able to speak more directly to the place of ensembles in the future. If I had to guess, I would say that there will always be a separate but equal stance on performance and creative-based music classes. Blurring this line will be quite difficult until more models are available for observation.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Future of Bands, Choirs, and Orchestras by Christi</title>
		<link>http://musiceducation.wordpress.com/2009/02/04/the-future-of-bands-choirs-and-orchestras/#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator>Christi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 03:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://musiceducation.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-48</guid>
		<description>You know, I&#039;ve often considered the same thing. I think, in fact, that you and I have talked about it. The more we look into comprehensive musicianship, and what music learning should be or who it should reach, the more it seems that performing ensembles are not going to meet the needs of modern, American education. They&#039;re not very efficient at providing for schools and children, and they&#039;re extremely complicated to measure.

On the other hand, you could say that if music &lt;i&gt;teachers&lt;/i&gt; who happen to have ensembles were to embrace modern education in its more progressive forms, then we could be much more effective. This would mean defending that students learn most effectively by doing things and working with people to solve problems. And as Covey would say, &quot;&lt;i&gt;Efficiency&lt;/i&gt; is for things. &lt;i&gt;Effectiveness&lt;/i&gt; is for people. Suppose we based the standards of the profession on access to instruction and resources rather than on student performance. 

Ensemble music adds another element to the comprehensive music curriculum (if that is, in fact, what is being taught) that some may argue is no different from a football team or Amnesty International, and perhaps, realistically, it belongs on the same level. But as long as students and communities value the experience, it will continue to exist, even if its evolution continues only in the ivory tower. Look at literature, theater. 

This is going to end mid-thought because I don&#039;t know where it&#039;s going. Ask more questions, and I&#039;ll keep thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, I&#8217;ve often considered the same thing. I think, in fact, that you and I have talked about it. The more we look into comprehensive musicianship, and what music learning should be or who it should reach, the more it seems that performing ensembles are not going to meet the needs of modern, American education. They&#8217;re not very efficient at providing for schools and children, and they&#8217;re extremely complicated to measure.</p>
<p>On the other hand, you could say that if music <i>teachers</i> who happen to have ensembles were to embrace modern education in its more progressive forms, then we could be much more effective. This would mean defending that students learn most effectively by doing things and working with people to solve problems. And as Covey would say, &#8220;<i>Efficiency</i> is for things. <i>Effectiveness</i> is for people. Suppose we based the standards of the profession on access to instruction and resources rather than on student performance. </p>
<p>Ensemble music adds another element to the comprehensive music curriculum (if that is, in fact, what is being taught) that some may argue is no different from a football team or Amnesty International, and perhaps, realistically, it belongs on the same level. But as long as students and communities value the experience, it will continue to exist, even if its evolution continues only in the ivory tower. Look at literature, theater. </p>
<p>This is going to end mid-thought because I don&#8217;t know where it&#8217;s going. Ask more questions, and I&#8217;ll keep thinking.</p>
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